Laura Smith - Grief to growth and mental health advocacy through outdoor adventures

Nurture with Nature: Laura Smith's Journey from grief to growth and mental health advocacy through the outdoors

In this heartfelt episode of 'Nurture with Nature,' host Iona Andean interviews Laura Smith, @mymessylifeinphotos, a healthcare support worker and mental health advocate who has found healing and purpose in the great outdoors after losing her eldest son, Robbie, to suicide in 2020. Laura shares her transformative journey of embracing outdoor adventures, from hiking and wild swimming to running and paddle boarding, which have helped her cope with grief and support mental health causes. She speaks candidly about her family's experiences, the importance of mental health awareness, and her plans to influence policy changes within the Scottish government. Tune in for an inspiring conversation about resilience, healing, and the profound impact nature can have on our well-being.

Follow host Iona on Instagram @iona.adventuring to stay connected.

00:00 Welcome to Nurture with Nature
00:55 Introducing Laura Smith
03:34 Laura's Outdoor Journey Begins
05:25 Robbie's Influence and Tragic Loss
09:28 Fundraising and Healing Through Adventure
16:35 Family Support and Outdoor Challenges
26:15 Embracing Adventure with Kids
27:04 Navigating Parenting Challenges
28:12 The Power of Social Media Connections
28:58 Overcoming Anxiety and Finding Community
30:25 Diving into New Adventures
35:18 Mental Health and the Outdoors
39:51 Addressing Suicide and Mental Health Stigma
43:38 Final Thoughts and Future Plans

Transcript

Iona: 0:02

Hello and welcome to Nurture with Nature with me, your host, Iona Andean. This is the show that aims to help encourage and inspire you to seek out the many physical and mental health benefits of time outdoors, truly nurturing yourself with nature

Take 1 - Iona: 0:23

Firstly, I want to say a huge heartfelt thank you for all the love and support so far since launching. I've been absolutely blown away by your kind words and I really want you to know how much it's truly appreciated. Knowing that this podcast can make some kind of difference, no matter how big or small, feels really powerful. With that said, today's guest story is one that I know will have a huge impact from a mental health perspective. And that's something that feels really important to me to be able to share through this show. Laura Smith is someone I've followed on Instagram for years now and it was an absolute pleasure to meet her for a woodland walk before we sat down for this heartfelt conversation. She's a mum to four young adults. She's a daughter, a sister, friend and mental health advocate. She's a healthcare support worker based in a busy A& E department and regularly sees firsthand how many people present in a mental health crisis or as a result of attempted suicide. Laura has no qualms about admitting that she fell in love with the outdoors later in life, but she certainly seems to be making up for it now. From hiking, camping, wild swimming, running and paddle boarding, Laura appears to give it all her best shot, and more often than not with a smile on her face. But you might notice a theme emerging with my guests. Laura is just like the rest of us, navigating life's ups and downs. Known on Instagram as My Messy Life in Photos, Laura doesn't shy away from discussing the mental health struggles she's had. In 2020, life took a devastating turn when she lost her eldest son to suicide. She uses social media to speak openly and honestly about the power that the outdoors has had on helping her heal. Our conversation today is hard hitting, and as a mother myself, I found I had to keep my own emotions in check at times. But this is Laura's story, and my aim was to give her the time and space to share her words in her own way. Laura herself told me that she finds it easy to compare her outdoor experiences to others and feel like they're not particularly noteworthy, but she's learned that adventures and achievements look different for everyone. In recent years, she's taken on various challenges for multiple mental health charities, and that's given her a sense of achievement, particularly completing the West Highland Way in 2018 as someone who she describes as being extremely unfit and overweight. I hope you'll take the time to listen to Laura's words today and truly check in with yourself and those around you, especially if our conversation feels particularly triggering for you. It might also help you put past prejudice aside and look at mental health and suicide in a different light. Despite the heartbreak that she describes, just being in Laura's company, I felt instantly calm and at ease and I truly hope you'll take something positive away from her episode. So, let's do it. Enjoy the show. It's so good to see you, Laura. How are you?

Take 1 - Laura: 3:31

I'm good. How are you?

Take 1 - Iona: 3:32

Yeah, really good. Good. I wanted to start by asking you how you got into the outdoors, how adventure became part of your life.

Take 1 - Laura: 3:43

So, As a child I was not outdoorsy at all.

Take 1 - Iona: 3:47

I was very much geek,

Take 1 - Laura: 3:49

bookish, liked to be indoors and had

Take 1 - Iona: 3:52

no real interest in being outdoors at all. And I didn't

Take 1 - Laura: 3:56

discover that I

Take 1 - Iona: 3:57

knew,

Take 1 - Laura: 3:58

or that I liked outdoors until I was a teenager and happened to go on a camping trip with some family friends. Who were very much outdoorsy people and absolutely adored the trip. Loved, loved all about it. It was very much wild camping. There were no sleeping mats. It was straight onto the ground but it was such an adventure. Lighting a fire and sitting around midges eating us and whatever else and really enjoyed the experience but my family were not an outdoors family so it wasn't something that was repeated again for a long time. And then I was about 14 or 15 and the same friends of the family were doing a hike and it was the cobbler and they invited us along and I went along and it was such a good experience. Absolutely loved it. Realized that I could do hard things thought that it would be something that I would enjoy and again went back to normal life and reading books and sitting at home and not really doing that, so. My adventurous side wasn't discovered until I was a parent. And even then it was when my oldest was about 14 and joined the army cadets and got involved in camping, kayaking, climbing, caving and all the things that he got involved in that I was able to get involved in and realised that this was what excited me and actually brought a lot of joy to my life. So That was Robbie. He was, he was my first. And I had him when I was 19 or just turned 20. And although the outdoors was part of our lives, like we would, we would go walking and I would walk him in his pram and things like that. There were no real adventures. although he was very much an outdoorsy little boy, he was a bit like me. Loved his books, loved to read, but would take his book and climb a tree and read his book up a tree. So yeah, my love of the outdoors came really from my journey in parenthood and it was lovely.

Take 1 - Iona: 5:58

Is that because he wanted to show you the things that he was learning in the Army Cadets or was it just that you were really interested in what he was doing?

Take 1 - Laura: 6:07

was doing? I think I saw the joy that it sparked in him. I think I saw how excited he got about it. And I had learned by that point that if I wanted to be involved in their lives, I had to get excited about the things that they were excited about. So he would come home and he would be like, Oh, you know, I was learning orienteering at Cadets, let me show you this. I think what it really discovered, or what I really discovered, was that I had a love for these things and maybe if I'd had an opportunity to take part in them, I would have been more involved in the outdoors from a younger age. I grew up in a really small village, so I didn't do things like brownies or guides or anything like that. It really was, we just all grouped together in the summer. We would maybe take our bikes, we quite often would go out on our bikes and, you know, Like I said, it was in a sort of farming village. We would head off up the back roads on our bikes with our packed lunches. But nothing, nothing particularly adventurous. So yeah, it was more being excited about what he was excited about that sparked that for me.

Take 1 - Iona: 7:04

Where do you think he got that from?

Take 1 - Laura: 7:07

from? So, like I said, he was a bookish boy as well in our favourite series to read together. The first books that we read together as kids. Me and him reading together were The Famous Five, and he adored those books. And Robbie was autistic, and when he found a love of something, he dived right into that, so he loved The Famous Five adventures. And I think he was maybe about six or seven, and one day he came with his backpack and he'd packed his lunch and he was going off on an adventure on his own. And then a few years later a neighbor had caught him miles away from home with his backpack and a fishing rod. And I hadn't even realized, I thought he was just playing in the village and he was off having his own adventure. So I think that was where it started with him. And then as often happens, you get out in the outdoors and it takes a grip of you and And you discover that love for being outdoors.

Take 1 - Iona: 8:03

He definitely discovered that in his own way, didn't he?

Take 1 - Laura: 8:05

Yeah, very much so. Like I said, he was up a tree, quite often with a boot, but always up a tree. He was always looking for a tree to climb. He went through a phase. I don't know if this is a typical childhood thing. He'd collect, he'd collect rocks or stones. Wherever we would go, I would come home and there would be pockets full of stones to remove before it put in the washing machine. I don't know how many times it would, in the filter, there would be a pebble of some kind. He loved

Take 1 - Iona: 8:30

water.

Take 1 - Laura: 8:30

He was a swimmer. Just as we do, you put him into swimming lessons and he got very competitive about it and actually when he joined the army cadets he swam competitively for them. So we would go maybe to the beach or whatever else and he would, he miles from the, miles from the shore and I couldn't swim. I still can't properly swim and I would be like, come back. Well he very much discovered the outdoors by himself

Take 1 - Iona: 8:56

and

Take 1 - Laura: 8:57

really my whole outdoor journey. adventure that was sparked by Robbie. and what people might know or might not know is that Robbie ended his own life in 2020 during lockdown. And that in itself was really the big drive for me in the outdoors. Fundraising in his memory and challenging myself and using that to help

Take 1 - Iona: 9:25

in

Take 1 - Laura: 9:25

my grief journey.

Take 1 - Iona: 9:28

What was your first fundraising challenge?

Take 1 - Laura: 9:31

So my first fundraising challenge started actually before Robbie passed and Robbie's mental health started declining I guess from he was about 12

Take 1 - Iona: 9:41

about

Take 1 - Laura: 9:42

when he changed to secondary school. Our family circumstances changed and we already Suspected that Robbie was autistic, however he didn't get that diagnosis until he was almost 18. But between 12 and 18 there was a lot going on and his mental health was up and down and actually when he was 17 we had him sectioned because he'd had a few serious attempts on his life and I felt like I couldn't keep him safe at home. The provision for mental health in Scotland for children is, is not very great. And so he was sectioned as an adult to an adult ward. And at that point he received his diagnosis for autism, which changed the way his treatment would go forward because he also was diagnosed with suicidal ideation with intent. And that was linked to his autistic black and white way of thinking. So after he was, discharged from the hospital, I decided that I would fundraise for SAMH. And I set myself the challenge of walking the West Highland Way in five days, which for some people is pleasurable and not a challenge and it's just an adventure, but I was so out of shape and unfit and hadn't really done any kind of adventuring, but I knew at that point that being outdoors helped my thinking. Even prior to Robbie being in hospital, I was going out walks and knew that It would clear my head. So I set myself this challenge that I would walk the West Highland Race in five days. For

Take 1 - Iona: 11:25

For anybody who doesn't know what the West Highland Way is.

Take 1 - Laura: 11:27

Highland Race is. So it's a 96 mile walk from Mulgai in Glasgow to Fort William. It's walk

Take 1 - Iona: 11:34

in the park, Laura.

Take 1 - Laura: 11:35

it? It's not. I throw in the day along the banks of Loch Lomond, It's a fudge. I have to say was, was extremely tough. For somebody who was so out of the way of doing that kind of adventure, it really was a challenge. But it was also therapy. Initially I set out with my mum and my stepsister, who were keen to do the challenge with me. Day two broke them and on day three, they decided that they couldn't push forward anymore. But I had raised over a thousand pound by that point and had been sponsored by so many people and people that I didn't know. And actually I was able to post on your original I own as adventurers page and lots of well wishes had been out and people who resonated with having struggles with their mental health got in touch to see like how good it was. So I knew that I had to complete this challenge and actually on day three and four when I was walking on my own There were lots of people round about me, but it gave me the space and the freedom to work out all the emotions that I had been feeling surrounding where my family was at, where Robbie was at and it really was therapy. And I think that was really the start of my outdoors journey and well being and knowing the impact that it could have. on not only my mental health but on the mental health of the rest of my family and wanting to be involved in that and I'm so grateful that Robbie's experiences and adventures have been able to continue to impact my life and every time I go on an adventure it doesn't matter what I do he's there with me and it's how I carry on forward in my life

Take 1 - Iona: 13:25

That's so beautiful. I'm so grateful. Especially after such a hard time

Take 1 - Laura: 13:29

thing as well, Iona, is that there were several attempts on Robbie's life by himself, obviously, in the lead up to him completing suicide. But there was a point where I knew That he would one day be successful. And you think that you can prepare for that. And until it happens, you've got no idea. And I thought it would break me. But we talked before we met up for this podcast. And I know it's one of the reasons that you reached out for it to speak to me. Is that in the immediate aftermath of Robbie ending his life, It happened during lockdown, which was a really difficult time for everybody anyway. But during lockdown, Robbie had sort of said to me, Well mum, when we can get out again, can we climb Ben Lomond? And I was like, yeah, sure. I was 20 stone at that point and so unfit. But decided that I would do it with him. he got a better offer and his friend decided that he would do it with him and they were going to climb Ben Lomond and I was awful put out. I was like, oh look, I thought that was our thing. Unfortunately he died before we did that But his friend said to me the same week that he died, let's, let's go and do that for Robbie and in terrible conditions, weather wise, mentally, physically, we forged ahead with it. with it. And again, I realised that this was going to be my therapy and this was what was going to get me through this particular period in my life. And so, we set off that day, myself, his best friend Graeme, his younger brother Brodie, my mum, my sister and Graeme's mum, to summit Ben Lomond. It was an ordeal. Brodie climbed in shoes that were two sizes too small for him and he didn't tell me that until on the way back down and his feet were crippled and he took the boots off and couldn't put them back on and he couldn't take another step forward.

Take 1 - Iona: 15:30

Oh my gosh. So

Take 1 - Laura: 15:32

I put them on my back and carried him and myself down as much as I could. Graeme had bolted down the hill. My mum and sister didn't even summit. The midges were out, it was raining, But in my head, there was just this peace of, you can get through this because you're stronger than you think, and whatever else. And that sparked the 20 for his 20th challenge, where I decided that I would summit 20 Monroe's before Robbie's 20th, or what would have been his 20th birthday. So that gave me from the July till the October. And I did it. And again, people so generously sponsored me. And every year around his birthday, I set myself another adventure challenge. So, I've done a 10k. I did a half marathon. I walked the West Highland Way. I walked a marathon. For Chris's house another mental health charity. And I just hope that every year I can give a little bit back. to support mental health through the outdoors.

Take 1 - Iona: 16:35

And are these things that you've done with other people on every occasion, or is it something that you're driven to do by yourself?

Take 1 - Laura: 16:43

So my family have always been my biggest supporters, even though they don't love the outdoors. Mum's always walked and enjoys being in nature but all these, sorry, what she would call extreme challenges, are not for them. But because it's for Robbie and because they want to support me, there's always somebody that joins in the mad challenge with me. I think the only one that I've done solo was the half marathon, and even then a friend from the gym decided that she would run to give me that support. I did a dook a day for seven days, having never done cold water therapy or cold water swimming. My sister, Joined me and it was like an ordeal for her every single time. But no, people have been really good at supporting me, not only financially, but emotionally and joining me on these, these challenges. But in the everyday adventures, that's definitely something that I do often by myself for myself. That, the younger children. Have joined me on lots of different adventures, maybe not the charity ones, but in helping them with their mental health and in their grief journey the outdoors has been such a big part of that as well.

Take 1 - Iona: 17:53

The challenges that you've taken on are incredible. I hope you realize because we've followed each other on social media for a long time. And I've kind of followed your progress. When I was looking back on your Instagram the other day, you had a post marking when you'd done the half marathon. And You said in the caption about building up from couch to 5k to doing a 5k to a 10k, then the half marathon, you've obviously walked the marathon distance as well. I mean, those are incredible achievements. And here you are just, you know, carrying on with everyday kind of adventures as well. And it's just part of your everyday life. But you have achieved these amazing, amazing feats. That you probably, I don't think you realise that you could have done them when you first started hiking and swimming, you know, you're mentioning the dook a day, you know, all these things that you think are mad, but they're part of your story. And like you said earlier, that's part of Robbie's influence on you and that stays with you now.

Take 1 - Laura: 19:03

you now. Well for saying that because quite often I think, for a lot of people who do regular adventuring or who are outdoorsy people and have always been outdoorsy people, they probably look at that and think it's not that big a deal. But for somebody who's, like I said, not really an outdoorsy person for most of my life, and was so out out of shape and out of fitness and who probably didn't have a, I didn't really have a great deal of belief in myself and what I was capable of and every time I achieve something I remember that I can do hard things and that's, that's my mantra going through life these days is like I can do hard things and I tell myself I've done the hardest thing I've carried on and not just carried on living but really filling my life with adventure and experiences and That's to honour Robbie's life, like, it would be so easy to sink into some kind of, black hole and not live your life fully, but that's not what he wanted for us and it's not what my children, who have survived need from me either, so, but the outdoors is just, it's given so much back to me, like, we don't really give it anything, it's just here and it fills my life with so much peace, really. I'm so grateful for it.

Take 1 - Iona: 20:20

You've mentioned the other kids as well. And Robbie was your eldest, so he has three siblings. And what do you, what do you think that outdoors means to them? How do you enjoy the outdoors as a family?

Take 1 - Laura: 20:37

So, the outdoors Has allowed me to, to continue to build relationships with my children. His brother is very outdoorsy. He enjoys being outdoors and he's my hill buddy. And when I was training for the West Highland Way the first time, Brodie would often come out. Walk, long walks with me and encouraged me and encouraged me to be telling me how much better he was than me and how slow I was compared to him and would run ahead and shout, come on mum, you can do it. And my oldest daughter she just wants to support me in everything that I do. So if I'm giving something a go, she's quite happy to give something a go. And my youngest is My paddle boarding buddy, they got a paddle board at Christmas and so we get out on the water. But I think it's been so important for us. So my journey just as a parent I found parenting teenagers quite difficult. They are becoming independent. They are becoming their own people. And I think maybe as a parent, when your children are small, you have an idea of how you think they're going to be and how you would like their life to be. And it's that realisation that actually it's for them to decide how they're going to live their life. But being outdoors gives us the chance to talk about things that we maybe wouldn't. Difficult conversations happen naturally in the outdoors. It takes the pressure off. Or, oh your room should be clean, or you haven't helped with the dishes this week, or we just go out and have fun together, and these conversations happen naturally. And I think it's given them all a realisation that they can do hard things as well and a link to their brother. It's a way for them to stay connected in a different way. I

Take 1 - Iona: 22:18

I love that. I think you're so right in the way that you say about opening up conversations in the outdoors, because It doesn't feel as confrontational if you're walking along beside someone side by side as opposed to face to face. You know, that can feel, that can feel quite intimidating for a lot of people, even within families. Not intimidating as in, you know, scary, but, well, sometimes having those hard conversations or deep conversations, or just talking about how you feel, that can be scary to a lot of people in a lot of situations and being able to do that outside and you've made these bonds with your kids and given them the opportunity to do that means that they can have those conversations with you.

Take 1 - Laura: 23:11

Yeah. My experience with my own children is that teenagers are very deep. The don't give information willingly and to try and get that out of them in their home environment. They feel a bit like pulling teeth, like you ask, how was your day? Fine. Like, do you want to talk about anything? No. And their favourite is their food. They just want fed and to be left alone. Whereas we go out on these adventures It just is all very natural. And no pressure, if they don't want to talk, they don't need to talk, but we've got these experiences together where we've spent that time, and one of the biggest pleasures is that these children still want to spend time with me, even at a stage in their life that maybe you don't really think it's cool to hang about with your parents. Probably on the night of the The big Northern Lights display. Was actually out camping with his friends, and had phoned to tell me that I needed to be looking at the sky, and I said, I already am, and he could see what I could see and everything else. But he came home from his camping trip with his friend, and then said, Can we go camping next week? And For me, that was just like, I'm winning at this parenting thing. Like, I'm doing an okay job, he still wants to spend time with me, even though he's 16. And he's had a really cool experience with his friend. He still wants to do that with me. And he might listen to this and be like, see you! But he did, and it was nice. Like that out on the paddle board with Rowan. It's just nice to know that we can enjoy these things together. And that we have that common theme. Going forward, like, there's always the outdoors to enjoy together, even if we don't have anything else. As they do their own things. Yeah, so I'm really grateful for that,

Take 1 - Iona: 24:58

too. That is so beautiful. How many parents can say that their teenagers choose to spend time with them, let alone choose to spend time with them in the outdoors, doing something active and in nature? I just think that's amazing. Give yourself a high five as a mum because that is a real achievement.

Take 1 - Laura: 25:19

I'll hang on to that on the days that we want to strangle each other. Yeah, we've had that moment and it was a good one. No, the outdoors, it, it just changed my life really in lots of ways. Like I realised that I was capable, that I could do things. I think when my children were small, There was no social media. The internet wasn't even really a thing. I wasn't aware of any other parents that wanted to do outdoorsy things. And so there was a lot of years that, with hindsight, that I could have been adventuring with them that I maybe didn't. And I don't look back with I wish that we'd have been able to do that. But what I would really hope that other parents maybe listen to this podcast or people with young people in their life, other children teenagers. This is a place that you can enjoy time with them and you don't need to let it stop you having adventures, I think. I look at adventure parents now as I see them and I follow them and I think, wow, doesn't need to be something that stops just because you're a parent. You can take your kids on this journey with you enjoy it with them. So I really hope any young parents or parents of young children. Recognize that. And it doesn't need be a huge adventure. You don't need to be walking the West Highlands away with them. You can take them to the beach and you can put your toes in the sand and just enjoy that time together. Because sadly one day it'll be those memories that you look back on and absolutely cherish. Whether it's because you're an old person and they're living their life or, or they're not here anymore. Definitely make the memories with your children. I Yeah, that's really lovely. And it's easy in hindsight, isn't it? To look back and think how you could have done things differently. But quite often, when you have young kids, or even like you say, with teenagers, when you're in the moment, some things can just feel really hard. And the phase or the stage that you're in, It feels like maybe that's never going to end and actually it is just that, it's a phase or a stage and what can feel tough in one moment isn't the next I'm kind of laughing here at myself because of all the stages of parenting, teenagers have been my personally most challenging stage. They're great, I love my kids to pieces and they're good kids. But they are, they know their own minds and that's okay when they're toddlers because you can kind of make them do what you want them to do. As they get to be teenagers that's not so easy. But Like I said, this, this being outdoors with him and enjoying that allows for connection and for us still to have good, healthy relationships where we can talk to one one another. so I'm always grateful for that.

Take 1 - Iona: 28:12

You mentioned connection and you've spoken about social media. I know you speak quite openly on social media about your experiences and the highs and lows of, of your life on a, maybe not a day to day basis, but you're really transparent and really open on social media. And when we're thinking about connection and community, that side of things, I know that you've made a lot of friends. Through social media who you continue to adventure with or you've discovered new adventures with. Can you speak a little bit about that and about the, the people that you've met or how that's shaped your life? Yeah, absolutely. So my first experience of outdoor adventuring was through Iona's Adventurers, which was your own group. I don't even know how I came across your page on Instagram, but at the time you were setting up the Facebook page and I joined that and I was so riddled with anxiety that I just followed it. I would see these adventures happening and think I would really like to do that but didn't do it and I was doing things on my own but it gave me the confidence that could see other people doing it and I thought well if they can do it so can I and then, over time, I think you and I exchanged a few messages. And I said, I'd love to join these groups, but I'm not quite there yet. And I had a few messages from people saying just join and we'll support you. But never really made it. happened with Robbie, and then afterwards Leanne and Bryony, who, Maybe some of your listeners will recognise, were doing the Great Glencoe Challenge and they set up their team Scrambled Legs. And again I held myself back there, I didn't join it, but looked at it thought that looks fabulous. Could see that they had created a community. And they went on to do the Great Glencoe Challenge. so from that I started following Leanne. Vari and Bryony and a whole load of other adventure people. I followed like yourself and Nicky and Jamie and all that on the Morocco, your three peaks challenge. And just saw people living life fully, pushing themselves and doing things. And all this adventure thing then became part of my life. And eventually I met up with Leanne for a wild swim and Mad Piranhas group. And honestly, the people that I have met, people that I not otherwise have come into contact with, with these different stories, are very much yes people to adventure came into my life. And so had absolute ball in the years trying things that I've never, that I never dreamt I would so, just last week, I started bouldering with Rosalind who is a very much a yes person. I know that if I need somebody to say yes to an adventure, I can ask Rosalind, and I'm preparing for a three day or a three Munro day in Skye in September, and I have an absolute of exposure and not being able to hold myself if I'm in a tricky position. So this is, this is my newest adventure but paddle boarding, wild swimming My, Munro journey. Just all the different things I've tried since then because I've surrounded with yes who are, even if they don't want to join me on the adventure, are a bit like my family saying, yes we've got you, you can do this and it really has changed my life. It's been That's so amazing. I think as well, looking at social media, you can follow lots of people. So. and think that what they're doing is incredible but unachievable for you. Whereas in your, your situation, you've followed people. Okay, maybe you have been kind of watching from the sidelines to start with. It sounds like until you got your confidence up yourself, and then you've just put yourself out there, you've gone and met people, you've introduced yourself, you've just gone and tried all these incredible things that you clearly wanted to do. Had you not tried those things because you didn't know how to, or was there something that was holding you back? holding you back? I think really myself and anxiety. held me back way. I know that this has been discussed maybe by yourself and other people making friends. As an adult, it's extremely difficult. It's very nerve wracking because you've got this assumption that people have already got their groups of friends and there's no space for you. And sometimes as well, I would look at outdoors people and not really see myself there. I'm a bigger lady and not particularly or fit. always so I always wondered, is there a space there for me? Very much the Mad Piranhas gave me Like, it's a welcome space for everybody. and doesn't matter your profession or your background or whatever whatever You're welcome. You're always welcome to be part of that community. think just forcing myself that first time gave me the confidence that the next time wouldn't be so difficult. And I've gone, I have still gone along, signed myself up to things and gone along and sat in the car and then not participated, because I'm having a bit of a wobble with my self esteem at that particular time. But I've realised, as as connection goes, outdoors has given me confidence. The opportunity to connect with different people from all walks of life. A couple of years ago I went on a walk and talk hike that was organised by somebody that I had followed on Instagram. met saw their post it was Scottish climber Davy Scott and he'd put that was going to do our health. walk. And I went along that and sat in car park right until the very last minute. think they were almost going set off without me. thought, just, do it. I got out car and I went and joined them. And I got talking another girl And she was maybe in the same situation as me, not really started on our fitness journey yet. And, and we chatted. Two years later, she's become a really good friend and another yes person in my life who I know I can rely on if my mental health is not great, can be like, you know, I'm giving myself a really hard time and we can talk each other through it. So the connections that have come from social media if, if anybody's sitting back thinking, you know, I've watched this, but it's not really for me, it's a hundred percent for you. It's for everybody. Don't let yourself be the barrier. There's lots of other things that will be barriers, like, you know, financial barriers or whatever else, but there are also people who are willing to lend you their equipment, you know, if don't have it, they'll tell you it, share and you can turn up and if you want to have on paddle boarding, I'll bring my board along and can have a go. Not much is going to happen, you're going to end up wet and that'll be great fun anyway. anyway So yeah, social media For all we tell our children, don't go meeting strangers off the internet. I'm ever so glad that I take the chance and go and meet strangers off the internet. Hmm, I think that's credit to you that you, you did get yourself along and that you've put yourself in those situations. You mentioned there about your mental health. How do you recognise if you need support or help with your mental health? Or how do you recognise when maybe you're not feeling your best? So like we said earlier I am a bit of an oversharer. about what's going on in my life. And like everybody, most of it is the highlight reel. You'll see the sunsets and the castles and me at the top of a hill. But also, I use the outdoors a lot to, I'm always posting an analogy. I've always got a big story to go with my climbing the hills. helps sort through my thoughts. I maybe know that I'm slipping a bit when I decide to skip that walk or I'm not going to push myself that little bit harder. it the same for Robbie, like his mental health was not good, he would spend a lot of time in his bedroom with the curtains shut, not even wanting the day light in. his room, like a dark space. Personally, I manage my mental health much better these days. I recognise the importance of, even when I feel like pushing myself go out. to go out. So on the days that I don't want to, I get somebody else to rope me into it. Like, I put that out there. I will happily say these days, I'm not in a good space. Like, I need that extra support. And I'm very lucky to be surrounded by who are there to hold me up at the times that I feel like I can't do it for myself. And I know that lots people don't have that or feel that they don't have that. And what I would say to people maybe feeling like that is, of my, my DMs are always open and I might not be able to fix things for you or help things for you or even but I can give you a space to, to vent and there are lots of organisations that will do that. I have supported. Sam H, I've supported Chris's house there's the Samaritans, there's, there are lots, there and there are people in your life who, even if they can't help you, will want to help you get the help that you need. But yeah, personally, the fluctuations in my mental health have been much less severe Since incorporating the outdoors into my life. They're not a cure all. Nobody's going to say if you go and sit amongst the trees that you're absolutely going to be better. but it might just give you what you need to get through to the next day. And sometimes it's just about the next five minutes, you know. Sit on a bench and listen to the birds. gives yourself five minutes breathing space to calm your thoughts or whatever it might be. I use physical exertion as a way to turn off my thoughts when I am struggling to climb a hill, or I'm running and I really feel like I can't take another step. I don't have the time, or I don't have the space to think about all the things that might otherwise take me to lower places or darker places. in is therapy in itself being outdoors and used alongside whatever other support needs. I highly recommend getting yourself outdoors. one of those things where quite often we know what's good for us. We know what makes us feel better and sometimes it's just taking that first step, isn't it? Or having the people that can keep you accountable. The people that will maybe push you the times that you need pushed, I mean. There's a balance, like, I've had a lot of, I guess, experiences with mental health through my own experience, through what Robbie experienced, what my other children experienced as a result of being survivors of someone who has, or been bereaved by suicide, because that's a very different grief the grief of losing somebody who is taking, if you want to put it that way. Or lack of a better word, naturally. It feels like a very unnatural grief. I've spent a lot of time reading about mental health support and whatever else. and I would never profess to be any kind of expert, but I do think if you can apply the things that you know are going to make you feel better, you know. They say it's the simple things, drinking your water, getting a bit of sunshine. But mostly having the people that will look out for you. A tricky one, mental health, isn't it? Because everybody experiences it differently. Exactly. what looks like a bad day for one person might not be a bad day for another person. you think there's a stigma around suicide? suicide? There's definitely a around suicide. I it's changing people become more aware. aware. The statistics around suicide are absolutely shocking. Like, one in four people are known to experience suicidal thoughts. It's the biggest killer of men aged under 45 more than cancers or accidents or or anything else. It's what claims the life of young men. You can't see it, Robbie was very open about his mental health and we see for so many people, and I've spoken to lots of parents who have lost children to suicide and they just didn't see it coming. They didn't know because it might be the boy that's out there playing football, having a laugh with his friends and whatever else. So what I love about the outdoors is that conversations can happen and it might be just a place to say, are you okay? And Ask again. There's the thing that SAMH say, you know, ask twice. Are you okay? And when they say yes, say, are you really okay? Because sometimes that's the, the chance. But long after Robbie died, I happened to be at the cemetery and I was standing, just chatting to my boy and somebody said to me, Oh, What happened, And said, Oh, you ended his own life. And she said, Oh, that's such a selfish thing to do. And my heart broke a wee bit again because I thought, you know, My boy fought to stay alive. He struggled and he stayed for a long time, like from 12 18. Every day was some kind of struggle for him to, and I thought it was selfish actually for us to ask him to stay. Now I'm not saying suicide was the answer for him by any means. But people have reached a breaking point. And I spoke to a counsellor at one point and he said, you know, everything in people fights to stay alive if somebody manages to complete suicide. They've overcome an awful lot to do that, and so you can be assured that people are not doing that just out of selfishness. But things, like I said, are changing. recognise that people struggle with things quietly and are more willing to be there. Robbie's friends. It's particularly for the cadets. Checked in on me a lot afterwards, despite their grief at losing Robbie. We'd check in and, you know, I still post a wee quote every now and then for them to see, like, check in on each other, look after each other just be there for people. you What would you like to say to anybody who's listening, who is either struggling with their own mental health, having suicidal thoughts, or somebody who's concerned about a family member or a friend that they're worried has suicidal thoughts? reach out. have to reach out. Services are because so many people are struggling, but keep reaching one service doesn't fit, reach out to another one. We save sometimes it's just a bit of time. Sometimes it's about self help you might not be able to fix somebody. And I have said, recently I had shared a post, and it was my own thoughts, and I journal quite a bit. And it's like, if I can't lift you out of the darkness, I'll sit with you while you're there. And, for anybody, find that person that can sit with you in the darkness until you can find the light, is what I would say. Or if it's somebody you're worried about, sit with them in the darkness. until they can see the light. That doesn't need to be the answer for people. There are, there are ways through it. Thank you so much for sharing that. I suppose I was going to ask you What would you like people to take away from this, this episode, if they've been listening? You've maybe said it there, but is there anything else that you would really like people to have taken away from this? have taken away from this? Oh, there's so much because Outdoors has been my, it's been my guru you know, Live your adventure life with your children. Take them on that adventure with you. Don't hold yourself back. Like, the outdoors is for everybody. It might not be cold water dipping for you, it might not be paddle boarding, but there is something out there that you will find joy and happiness in. and like that, if you are struggling with your mental health, know that there's brighter days, you know, there a cycle that we go through. For everything in universe goes through cycles, the seasons go through cycles. And you might sit in the darkness for a while, but the light always comes again. And if you can just hold on, then you get through it. much you so much for everything that you've shared. I'm just blown away at how articulate you are and how much you have done to safeguard yourself and your family but also to raise money for such amazing charities in Robbie's memory. I'm always just so thankful that people choose to support me in that, I feel like you're saying I'm articulate. I feel like I should apologize to your listeners for this Weegie accent that's not quite a Weegie accent either. Well done if they get through that. that. I don't think you realise how much people will either resonate with what you've said or will really empathise with what you've said and will switch on and I'm sure it'll have made people think differently. even if it's in a slightly different way from how they might have before. Honestly, everything that you speak about is so powerful, so heartfelt and just being able to chat to you about it and to listen to you speak about your family and your passions is, is just so, so beautiful. Laura, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I really do appreciate the chance to share. I'm so grateful that Laura felt able to chat so candidly about the struggles she and her family have experienced. I hope that by sharing Robbie's story, Laura will have helped even one person from experiencing the pain and suffering that her son did. I'd highly recommend following her on Instagram as mymessylifeandphotos for the micro adventures that she has planned as well as her next big personal adventure to run a marathon in May 2025. Laura's passion for mental health advocacy goes beyond social media. She told me that so much of the central belt is affected by poverty, and that children are often born into cycles of deprivation and abuse, meaning their future is almost always limited before it's even started. She's passionate about helping to prevent mental health crisis, rather than trying to treat it, and has plans over the next year or two to go back to education, to study sociology and psychology. Laura's goal is to be able to then influence policy changes within the Scottish government and I for one wish her the best of luck in achieving this and I'll be backing her all the way. Please do let me know what you thought of the show over on Instagram, where you'll find me as iona. adventuring. As always, your support is hugely valuable, and I would appreciate if you could share this episode far and wide. Make sure you're following the show as well, so that you don't miss out on next week's episode. I hope you'll use Laura's powerful words to encourage and inspire you to find your own way of being nurtured with nature. Take care. I'll see you next time.